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April 15, 2010

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Monday, August 17, 2009

DW Tanking, and Why it SUCKS

I can't take it anymore!!!!

Everywhere I look, DK's are trying to DW tank, and it makes no frickin sense! So much potential lost on stupidity...

Let's examine the basic principles of DK tanking, and why DW sucks ass. I'll try to esplain the best I can.


Why Anyone would want to DW Tank: Myths/Beliefs
1.) It Looks Cool
2.) Stats are better on 2x 1H's vs. 2H
3.) Greater TPS (threat generation)


Ok--so now you have some reasoning behind actually equipping 2x 1-handers to tank. Now, for some edu-muh-cation:

Threat:
A DK's threat (other than DnD) is based on damage. The higher the damage, the higher the TPS (threat per second). A DK's strike damage (as well as all other classes) is normalized, and based on weapon speed. Melee weapons are broken down into 3 categories: 1.7, 2.4, and 3.3--the slower the weapon, the greater the damage, thus the more threat is generated.

Now, with the inclusion of Threat of Thessarian into the Frost tree, it is semi-plausable to create a DW tank-spec. I say semi plausable, because maximizing DW costs an additional 4 points vs. its 2H predecessor. 4 points that would have to be removed from either Bladed Armor, or other beneficial points in the unholy tree. With Nerves of Cold steel, and Threat of Thessarian maxed, theoretically, strike damage would be up to par with a 2H build.

Now, there are 2 problems with this:
1.) Hit Cap
2.) Strike Normalization

Obtaining 8% hit cap for a 2H tanking build is easy. DW is another story. At 13% hit rating, DW still misses a large chunk of the time. Missing causes problems, not only with rotations and runes, but also for generating threat (especially since all Tanking 1H's are fast, thus the damage created is on par with daggers). DW tanks also need a solid amount of expertise to avoid parry-gibs. The expertise cap for DW is 64 skill (500 rating)--obtaining this number is quite difficult. If not capped, then DW tanking with 2x 1.6 speed weapons actually increases the chance of being parry-gibbed by 3.75x...

On average, dual wielding tanking weapons add an extra 2% avoidance (but lose out on AP stats like strength, which translates into damage), however, the amount of attacks more than doubles, thus increasing the chance to be parried as such. Boss parry-haste can stack multiple times, therefore attacks against you have the chance to come faster and faster. This causes more damage more quickly, and places added stress on the healers; in endgame it can ultimately cause a wipe (think steelbreaker).

Conclusion
Trading out a strong 2-hander for 2x 1-handers may lead to additional defense skill and avoidance, but really neglects the basic principles of DK tanking. Be able to hit the boss, be able to hit the boss hard (TPS), and don't be parried. DW tanking begins at a disadvantage in all of these areas. So while it may look cool, and may be functional for trivial things like heroics and SM runs (at lvl 80), it is not at all acceptable for endgame raiding.

Everyone knows you don't go full retard.

5 comments:

  1. I for one don't think it looks cool. Not unless you can dual-wield 2 two-handers - that would be kick ass.

    Otherwise, if I'm going to tank without a shield I want to be swinging around the biggest, baddest sword I can find. The sword IS my shield.

    DPS? Dual wield looks great. Not for tanking.

    I'll leave the rest of the discussion up to people that actually tank. =)

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  2. Disclaimer: Hazl is not a tank, and never has been one. But she's healed the hell outta em...

    Can't disagree with anything you have up there, but it seems you leave out one point: more attacks also means more hits. Yes, your miss rate doubles, but so does your hit rate. I have thought about this off and on for dps specs... if you fail to hit (parried, dodged, miss, whatever) 25% of the time, then one out of 4 hits is a miss. Is it better to hit 6 out of 8 times with DW or 3 out of 4 (in the same amount of time) with a 2-H weap? Does it take too long to catch up on damage/threat with DW (back to thinking about tanks)? It seems that in a long fight that damage and threat end up being about the same. I think it's an interesting topic...

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  3. Good point, Haz.

    Assuming that both DW and 2H tanking have the same chance to hit, then yes--Threat per second would be on a relatively level playing field.

    The difference may lie more in the expertise. The DW cap is more than 2x the amount needed for a 2H, which is fairly difficult to obtain--damn near impossible, actually. This means more parries against....so with a 1.6 wep speed as opposed to a 3.5, thats a lot more parries.

    Since Boss Parry-haste is stackable, a series of parries will lead to Damage that comes so quickly a healer wouldn't be able to pass a heal...

    But you're right, Haz, with equal chance to hit, TPS really isn't an issue--just becomes an issue of the tank taking on damage abnormally fast.

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  4. Good discussion. Just don't let Di hear you say she can't heal it...

    And, sense we've reached a consensus on the TPS thing, let me just add:

    DW tanks look stupid. Not as dumb as Nagu (love ya, Nagu), but pretty dang stupid.

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  5. Technically, DW tanking would be the best idea IRL.
    EX:
    You're swinging a giant 2-hander while somebody tries to kill you. You hit them, have nothing to block with, get slashed and die.

    OPTION 2:
    You swing your 1-handers fast while they try to hit you. This constant stabbing pain not only slows them down, it deals constant damage to them. They strike at you; You block it with one weapon, sweep it to the side, and go to the face.

    But in WoW, Uni-zebras can walk on water. Sooooo we're obviously not talking about realisticly. Yeah DW tanking is bad... I tried it once... don't do it.

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