The post depicts a struggle that many of us seem to face when queueing for random heroics; being paired with undergeared (and/or underskilled) players for dungeons reaching the upper echelon of the level 80 spectrum. During Naxxramas days, I remember the avg dps needed for heroics was somewhere between 1300-1500 dps, and 1500+ to clear Naxx-10. After reading Dark's post, I wanted to see how that held up under todays specs.
The Argument: DPS should be pulling 2k in heroics as an overall average.
The TEST: Set up a group in greens and blues, send them into heroics, and record the data.
Test Group: Bear Tank, 2 DK's, Lock**
**I wanted to get a hunter in, but none were online at the time of my trial**
Enter Queue for Random Heroic: UK
The Observation:
Let me preface by saying that I was utterly surprised at the results. With 1/3 of my normal strength and hit chance, I expected to do much worse than I actually pulled.
As you can see from recount (ok- I "misplaced" the overall recount pic), all dps members hovered right around the 2k mark. Slan (Lock) was sitting about 1.9k, Buick (DK) 2k, and myself about 2.2k. Even neglecting hit chance, these numbers were easily obtained, and were constant throughout the instance. These numbers also reflect the total average dps for the run.
(screenshot after one of the mobs)
Things to Consider:
We all know what we're doing. Don't laugh. It's true. Buick and I consistenly top the dps charts in current tier raids(Slan has multiple toons)--so I can say without a doubt, that the 2.2k I was able to pull was the product of a near perfect raid dps spec, rotation, and glyph set. I can't get any better than what I was doing (unless I can and just don't know about it).
Now, subtract out 100-200 dps for a less-than-stellar spec, and another 200 or so for not utilizing a correct rotation (priority) and/or glyph set, and the base dps for a true n00b 80 hovers right around the 1500-1700 mark.
That being said....
I'm calling it.
(insert voiceover here) *Big, Booming, Official Sounding Voiceover, possibly Mr. Samuel L Jackson*
OFFICIAL DPS FOR A N00B 80 to
Most DPS should have a clue by the time they ding 80. Others though, may need some help; a good point in the right direction, if you will. I personally think that 1500-1700 dps is easily achieveable in quest/AH purchased gear--and should definitely be considered the floor-median for DPS players looking to run Heroic Dungeons.
Posts
damn man, should have told me ;)
ReplyDeletethat is pretty awsome though, and i still remember doing gundrak right when i hit 80, and doing 1.4 or 1.5k. the tank was awesomly built, around 2.5 hp i think (you know, great for wotlk 3.0) and another dps was complaining that i was low. the tank just /shrug and said "well, everyone needs to get gear sometime" i find it odd looking back that even people at that time thought 1.5k was too low. it's just one of those stigma's, a stereotype, like people who refuse to do occ, it's just sad that people think 1.5k doesn't cut it.
-Vic
I think you're underestimating how much the rotation plays into DPS... I've run with DKs that don't use diseases... but otherwise, this was an awesome experiment. I would love to see it repeated with "real" fresh 80s to try to prune out that skill factor.
ReplyDeleteIt's too bad we couldn't all swap characters for a run, that would be hilarious. WTF does this button do?
Nice work!
ReplyDelete1500-1700 seems fair. I might be willing to compromise to that. However, some people have said ridiculous things like 1k minimum or offered up the 1k-1.5k range, and I will not concede my stance that far.
Dark--I completely agree with you. At level 80, if you're pullin less than 1k, you deserve to be kicked and/or criticized immensely =)
ReplyDeleteI was pulling 1.3k last night on my 78/79 shadow priest using some quest stuff, heirloom shoulders, chest, staff with enchants on all, and some crafted tailor stuff. Of course, some of the stuff I have crafted, since my priest is tailor/enchanter, is getting close to BiS prior to Naxx raiding.
ReplyDeleteOh...in Halls of stone regular. My hit rating isn't that high, nor do I have any of the 80 stuff. Could be spriest dps is easier. It's been a few days since I ran my hunter but I think I average a bit more on him in heroics. Part of it is depending on the group, things are just dying so fast, I can't get into the rotations.
ReplyDeleteIf one of my dps toons hits 80, gets the blues and boe epics I've had made and waiting on her and still can't pull 1500, I'm doing something very wrong. 1500 is my accepted minimum for a toon of mine.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wonder why I DONT votekick the dks that pull 300dps.
When my Warrior hit 80, he was wearing full Savage Saronite. Neck and both rings were crafted PvP items. Trinkets were stuff from questing. My weapon was the level 75 axe from Ampitheater, and my ranged was a gun from Borean Tundra.
ReplyDeleteI was pulling a consistant 1600 DPS (unless I got into a group of people so overgeared they killed mobs faster than I could get going on them). My overall damage was high thanks to the power of Bladestorm, my single target DPS was low (1200 on occasion, 1400 regularly).
This is my now: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Boulderfist&n=Uldor
Still some PvP stuff, still a lvl 71 gun. Some obvious badge upgrades.
My DPS now is in the 2500 range for trash (Bladestorm is still OP), and around 2k on bosses.
I put the "this guy is at least trying" threshold at 1500. Slightly more for some classes (my warlock was around 1800).
@Askevar--I say kick em... I kicked one last night that was pullin 700, then found out the healer was Dualboxing. More to come...
ReplyDelete@Dorgol--Warriors similarly geared to me, wreck me in 5 mans. That effin bladestorm kills crap too fast for me to spread diseases. Waay OP =p